[SunRay-Users] VDA licenses hurting VDI

Craig Bender Craig.Bender at Oracle.com
Fri Mar 18 03:38:18 EET 2011

Hi Ivar,

I'm relaxed.  Nothing but happy thoughts over here.  ;)

The EULA is not pushing Hyper-V.  RemoteFX requires Hyper-V , so I guess 
that would be a no to your Virtualbox question.

I'm not sure I get the correlation between WVDA and RemoteFX and 
roadmaps though.  There's zero tie in between licensing the RemoteFX 
spec from Microsoft and not having to pay the WVDA.  That's only 
possible by running Windows 7.  But you do have to pay SA.

Since the price of SA is going to be determined by what your licensing 
agreement is with MS (those who buy more copies of Win7 will get lower 
SA prices), WVDA actually favors smaller companies because the delta 
between the yearly SA cost and the full yearly WVDA license will be 
less.  IMO this is intentional.  The biggest MS customers who may be 
interested in VDI on non-Windows 7 devices will see such a huge 
difference between SA and WVDA, they'll either not do VDI, or if they 
still really believe in it, they'll buy Win 7 SA capable device. 
Win/Win for MS.

I do wonder how many Citrix customers run the XD VMs on Hyper-V?  I'd 
guess not many.  Citrix wants you to run on XenServer, Citrix customers 
seem to want to run on Vmware.  Citrix doesn't sell client devices, but 
they do want to keep MS happy so XenApp can continue to be an upgrade to 

What you have left is companies that do not have protocols (RGS doesn't 
count), though they do sell (or want to sell) a lot of PCs (Wyse Cloud 
PCs are Windows 7 SA capable PCs).  No big surprises on that list who 
have signed up.  Where is Vmware?

I've tried to illustrate why MS does not like VDI and why they like 
Windows on PCs.  Remember the stats I shared on the thin client market 
on whole compared to the PC market on whole.  They want they bigger 
piece of the pie, and they want keep it as big a possible.

Here is Brian Madden's take on the subject:


On 3/17/11 5:28 PM, Ivar Janmaat wrote:
> Hello Guys,
> Please relax!
> I thought I had chosen my subject carefully.
> Microsoft is delaying VDI by charging excessively on the VDA licenses.
> They argue that you should pay extra for the flexibility of VDA licenses.
> In my opion this is crap. An OEM license is much cheaper.
> One could also argue that Microsoft should charge less for VDA than OEM
> licenses since most of the time my VM pool has a lot less running
> Windows instances than there are Sun Rays.
> So this is all strategic thinking of Microsoft until they can come up
> with some thing else to make money.
> Now Remote FX is evolving and Microsoft might have the new money maker
> it waited for.
> My guess is that Oracles new features probably will need to use Remote FX.
> So that is why I asked for an update on VDA licensing.
> The whole idea seems to be that Citrix will use Remote FX and expand
> that with HDX for WAN.
> HDX is of course ugly because it needs players and codecs on the client.
> ALP would be a much cleaner implemention with Remote FX.
> However I also see some problems.
> Microsoft is also pushing Hyper-V and I am not sure if the Microsoft
> EULA will allow Remote FX on say Virtualbox.
> I don't see Oracle as OEM Remote FX partner on the Microsoft website.
> There seems to be a Remote FX chip design...Sun Ray 4 feature?
> Wyse, Dell, HP, Citrix are all mentioned as OEM partners.
> This would indicate that there might be OEM licensing model involved.
> It appears as if Oracle is not joining fully so that does worry me...
> That's why I also asked for an update.
> But since it is hard for Oracle people to speak about roadmaps I was not
> very specific.
> This might have left some room for misinterpretation.
> I am sorry about that...
> Kind regards,
> Ivar
> Kind regards,
> Ivar
> Craig Bender schreef:
>> All taken care of.
>> I just talked to Larry Ellison (he as out sailing an still took my
>> call!) who gave me Bill Gates' cell phone. Bill said if if you forward
>> this email out to 1000 people from a Windows 7 PC using Outlook, his
>> friends at Intel will track that you are a Windows 7 and Outlook user.
>> They will send you a free Windows VDA license, and also Free copy of
>> Office 2010 Professional for each of your friends that forward it on.
>> I also read something about this in the USA TODAY, so it has to be
>> true. All part of some MS/AOL email beta test.
>> OK, joking. But seriously? Please explain how is the hurting the Sun
>> Ray business case? Why don't you hurt Microsoft and run Linux or
>> Solaris and publish Windows apps from a terminal server via SGD?
>> To be clear:
>> ANY Non-Windows 7 device needs a WVDA license (all Wyse, all HP, all
>> Igel, all Dell, All EVERYTHING)
>> ALL Windows 7 device not covered by an enterprise Software Assurance
>> agreement has to pay for a WDA license.
>> All non-corporate owned devices has to pay for a WVDA license. That
>> includes the bosses iPad that the tech guy loaded the Desktop Receiver
>> to accesses their XenDesktop install on.
>> This is true for Citrix XenDesktop, VMware View, nComputing, and even
>> Microsoft VDI.
>> All of the above includes, is not limited to:
>> -Non-corporate owned PCs (i.e. a Contractor's PC)
>> -Devices that are do not run Windows 7
>> -All non-windows based thin-clients
>> -All Thin Clients running non-SA covered versions of MS Operating System
>> i.e. WinCE or Embedded XP thin clients must purchase WVDA
>> -Smart phones (iPhone, BlackBerry, etc)
>> -Apple Products. Macbook, iPad, iMac
>> -Linux/Unix based desktops or laptop
>> -PCs with OEM Windows 7 licenses that are 90 days past their purchase
>> date.
>> i.e. PCs bought in January can be upgraded to SA cover available
>> through March, but not in April
>> Sure, you get some "roaming rights". But only for non-corporate owned
>> devices that access the VDI infrastructure from *OUTSIDE* the
>> corporate network. So that iPad you brought in on Weds? WVDA required.
>> That blackberry tablet the company owns? WVDA required.
>> BTW, you get the same roaming rights with a WVDA, so you can use your
>> home PC or Mac to access the VDI if you got WVDA for your corp
>> purchased Sun Ray.
>> So if you don't want to pay for a MS VDA license you have three options:
>> 1) Don't run Windows via VDI. Use Ubuntu, it's great.
>> 2) If you need Windows, use Terminal Services
>> 3) Buy a PC with Windows 7 on it and run OVDC. Upgrade to SA (if you
>> can) and then pay 27% of the OS cost a year for a 3 year minimum.
>> Oh, you directed purchasing to buy Win 7 Ultimate for everyone? Ouch.
>> -Also, be prepared lose all the security, admin, and power savings of
>> a true thin client.
>> -If buying a Windows 7 "cloud PC", please refer to the previous email
>> about the maintenance costs of the Sun Ray 3i being too high and be
>> sure to add on all the "extras" you will be charged to manage this
>> "Cloud PC" in the same manner as you would a Sun Ray.
>> If you can't make the case for Sun Ray over a PC running Windows 7 to
>> access a VDI environment, then everyone who makes a non-windows 7 SA
>> capable device or software client for a non-windows 7 SA capable
>> should just get out of the business right now.
>> On 3/16/11 2:03 PM, Ivar Janmaat wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> Is there any news on the VDA licenses from Microsoft?
>>> The yearly $100 license is hurting the Sun ray business cases.
>>> Is Oracle addressing this issue?
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Ivar
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> SunRay-Users at filibeto.org
>>> http://www.filibeto.org/mailman/listinfo/sunray-users
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