[SunRay-Users] VDA licenses hurting VDI

Craig Bender Craig.Bender at Oracle.com
Thu Mar 17 04:34:22 EET 2011


I really don't understand why this is an issue.  If you want MS OS, you 
pay what MS charges.

This isn't Oracle charging this.  Why does this even get painted as an 
Sun Ray issue.  Everyone who drooled over the OVDC iPad client, are you 
going to tell Apple that the WVDA is hurting iPad deals?

I'm sure Citrix XenApp customers don't feel great paying a TS or RDS 
CALs after paying Citrix and paying MS for the server license and 
Windows CAL.  But they have to because that's what MS requires.

I'm sure people who buy Wyse HDX terminal don't like paying the WVDA 
after paying for it, and XenDesktop.  But they have to.  And there's 
nothing Wyse or Citrix can do about, except build a Windows 7 PC.  Oh 
wait, Wyse did.  And it's the "fastest thin client ever!!!!!"  But it's 
not a thin client.

WVDA is cheaper than the VECD license that it just replaced.  Just 
because you may not have know about it doesn't mean you weren't supposed 
to pay for it.  Why didn't that hurt VDI?

WVDA is cheaper than buying retail versions of the OS which is what you 
had to do before MS did VECD.

Let's just pretend that this little scenario was possible (it's not BTW, 
the Sun Ray can't pass the WHQL thus can't be an OEM).

So you'd be happy with us bumping the price of the Sun Ray by (a 
conservative) $100 (we won't enjoy the big volume discounts that Dell, 
and HP enjoy) then having to pay an upgrade fee to have this OEM version 
of Windows covered by SA, then pay 29% of what ever your corporate 
select or MS Open license fee would have been for that copy of Win 7 
eternity?  What if you stop?  Well, now you have to true up, which is 
going be more than the WVDA.

The WVDA *should* include the Win7 license for your VM guest?  If your 
reseller says otherwise, I'd have your legal department review the WVDA 
license.

But let's say it's possible.  That's more attractive than just realizing 
power and admin savings?

Like the 12% on the 3i, that's being penny-wise, pound-foolish.

This is Microsoft penalizing the non-Win 7 device market.  They do not 
like these devices.  They will not negotiate.  This is not a Sun Ray 
issue.

Wouldn't you think HP would have tried this?  But they won't because 
they don't care because they sell far more Windows 7 SA capable devices 
than thin clients even though they own 70% of the Thin client market.

Maybe Citrix could do this, because after all the hot new thing for them 
is the HDX "Zero Client". Maybe Vmware and Teradici?  Riiiight.

Does anyone keep up with what MS does to lock people into SA?  	Do you 
know about WinTCP?  It's a stripped down version of Windows 7 to run on 
older devices that couldn't run full Win 7.  Advertised as not needed a 
VDA license!  But guess what, you need SA.

Why would they do this when they could just charge for a VDA?  Hmmm...I 
wonder?  Could it be that SA is far more lucrative for them?  As is 
their business practice of charging the major PC manufacturers for OEM 
licenses whether people get Windows or not.  That possibly Microsoft 
doesn't want people to use a device that has a 22 year MTBF because in 
the long run that means less OEM licenses for them to sell?

And how much do save off that Dell Optiplex when you told them to ship 
in blank because you are going load Ubuntu?

The WVDA license is a far better way to go.

But if *really* want to keep MS business practices alive, *AND* you want 
to hot desk, then buy a PC capable of running WinTPC, buy a smart card 
reader, sign up for SA for the rest of your natural life, and use OVDC.

Problem solved.  Have fun administering those devices.

For those who think MS and Oracle would actually sit down and talk to 
each other about this subject may enjoying read up on the NetPC that was 
the thrust of the entire Windows PC ecosystem the day after the NC 
announcement.




-
On 3/16/11 5:16 PM, David Bullock wrote:
> Hi guys, why not at least try and negotiate something?  For example,
> if the device you're accessing your virtualised Windows instance from
> has an OEM licence, then you don't need to pay VDA fees.  So maybe
> Oracle could offer an OEM Windows license with SunRay (as an option,
> of course), but forfeit the pleasure of actually installing the
> licensed software on the device?  It is something that you could
> negotiate organisationally which would improve the *Sun Ray* value
> proposition.  I'm sure M$ would take your money.
>
> Microsoft have a decent desktop OS offering, and some of us want to
> virtualise it so we can hot-desk.  Any obstacle that can be removed is
> going to make it easier to adopt Sun Ray.
>
> cheers,
> David.
>
>
> On 17 March 2011 08:57, Craig Bender<Craig.Bender at oracle.com>  wrote:
>> All taken care of.
>>
>> I just talked to Larry Ellison (he as out sailing an still took my call!)
>> who gave me Bill Gates' cell phone.  Bill said if if you forward this email
>> out to 1000 people from a Windows 7 PC using Outlook, his friends at Intel
>> will track that you are a Windows 7 and Outlook user. They will send you a
>> free Windows VDA license, and also Free copy of Office 2010 Professional for
>> each of your friends that forward it on.  I also read something about this
>> in the USA TODAY, so it has to be true. All part of some MS/AOL email beta
>> test.
>>
>> OK, joking.  But seriously?  Please explain how is the hurting the Sun Ray
>> business case?  Why don't you hurt Microsoft and run Linux or Solaris and
>> publish Windows apps from a terminal server via SGD?
>>
>> To be clear:
>>
>> ANY Non-Windows 7 device needs a WVDA license (all Wyse, all HP, all Igel,
>> all Dell, All EVERYTHING)
>>
>> ALL Windows 7 device not covered by an enterprise Software Assurance
>> agreement has to pay for a WDA license.
>>
>> All non-corporate owned devices has to pay for a WVDA license.  That
>> includes the bosses iPad that the tech guy loaded the Desktop Receiver to
>> accesses their XenDesktop install on.
>>
>> This is true for Citrix XenDesktop, VMware View, nComputing, and even
>> Microsoft VDI.
>>
>> All of the above includes, is not limited to:
>>
>> -Non-corporate owned PCs (i.e. a Contractor's PC)
>>
>> -Devices that are do not run Windows 7
>>
>> -All non-windows based thin-clients
>>
>> -All Thin Clients running non-SA covered versions of MS Operating System
>> i.e. WinCE or Embedded XP thin clients must purchase WVDA
>>
>> -Smart phones (iPhone, BlackBerry, etc)
>>
>> -Apple Products.  Macbook, iPad, iMac
>>
>> -Linux/Unix based desktops or laptop
>>
>> -PCs with OEM Windows 7 licenses that are 90 days past their purchase date.
>> i.e. PCs bought in January can be upgraded to SA cover available through
>> March, but not in April
>>
>> Sure, you get some "roaming rights".  But only for non-corporate owned
>> devices that access the VDI infrastructure from *OUTSIDE* the corporate
>> network.  So that iPad you brought in on Weds?  WVDA required.  That
>> blackberry tablet the company owns?  WVDA required.
>>
>> BTW, you get the same roaming rights with a WVDA, so you can use your home
>> PC or Mac to access the VDI if you got WVDA for your corp purchased Sun Ray.
>>
>> So if you don't want to pay for a MS VDA license you have three options:
>>
>> 1) Don't run Windows via VDI.  Use Ubuntu, it's great.
>> 2) If you need Windows, use Terminal Services
>> 3) Buy a PC with Windows 7 on it and run OVDC.  Upgrade to SA (if you can)
>> and then pay 27% of the OS cost a year for a 3 year minimum.
>>
>> Oh, you directed purchasing to buy Win 7 Ultimate for everyone?  Ouch.
>> -Also, be prepared lose all the security, admin, and power savings of a true
>> thin client.
>> -If buying a Windows 7 "cloud PC", please refer to the previous email about
>> the maintenance costs of the Sun Ray 3i being too high and be sure to add on
>> all the "extras" you will be charged to manage this "Cloud PC" in the same
>> manner as you would a Sun Ray.
>>
>> If you can't make the case for Sun Ray over a PC running Windows 7 to access
>> a VDI environment, then everyone who makes a non-windows 7 SA capable device
>> or software client for a non-windows 7 SA capable should just get out of the
>> business right now.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/16/11 2:03 PM, Ivar Janmaat wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Is there any news on the VDA licenses from Microsoft?
>>> The yearly $100 license is hurting the Sun ray business cases.
>>> Is Oracle addressing this issue?
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Ivar
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SunRay-Users mailing list
>>> SunRay-Users at filibeto.org
>>> http://www.filibeto.org/mailman/listinfo/sunray-users
>>
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